tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post78510073970365431..comments2024-03-28T09:41:11.549+01:00Comments on Easy Croatian: Variations: Ikavian (dite vs dijete)Daniel N.http://www.blogger.com/profile/14585410511935134909noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-12189555616672060992023-08-04T15:02:05.917+02:002023-08-04T15:02:05.917+02:00There's no confusion as bolja has a falling to...There's no confusion as <b>bolja</b> has a falling tone, and <b>boja</b> rising.<br /><br />Furthermore, <b>boja</b> is from Turkish, and Turkish words have been rare on the coast. For "paint", they often use <b>pitura</b> from Venetian or Italian...Daniel N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14585410511935134909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-43998622591812379292023-08-03T20:16:36.436+02:002023-08-03T20:16:36.436+02:00So "bolje" is "boje"? Because ...So "bolje" is "boje"? Because "Boje" means also "colors", "of color" and "they fear", so how come this is without common confusion?fnltypenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-23781883114134875472023-03-21T16:29:23.136+01:002023-03-21T16:29:23.136+01:00Uh, I'm sorry about this comment, somehow it w...Uh, I'm sorry about this comment, somehow it was lost in moderation and it wasn't published for more than a month...<br /><br />Well this depends on the dialect. Regional forms from Dalmatia are often highly regarded because they appear in songs, novels and so on. Forms from some villages in the north have much lower status.<br /><br />For example, there's a whole chapter on traditional dialects of the north: <br /><br /><a href="http://www.easy-croatian.com/2014/11/i6.html" rel="nofollow">Variations: Traditional Dialects #1</a><br /><br /><b>kjuč</b> is just a normal form for <b>lj</b>-less dialects.<br /><br />lp DanielDaniel N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14585410511935134909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-16401976189704225092023-02-12T12:45:33.687+01:002023-02-12T12:45:33.687+01:00I was wondering if regional forms can also appear ...I was wondering if regional forms can also appear to be "uneducated" speech or if there is a stigma around using them in Croatia? For example, I once said "kjuč" instead of "ključ" and was laughed at in Bosnia. However, I don't know if this is viewed as village speech (or, perhaps, childish pronunciation) or if it's more of a rivalry between regions (e.g. Would "kjuč" be considered funny in Bosnia, but normal in Split and Dalmacija?). I did see that variation in Split/Dalmatian dictionaries, but I don't know if it is archaic.<br /><br />My family is Croatian from Dalmacija and Bosna, but i am not fluent. But, I still remember much of the sounds/words from my childhood and would like to keep as much of the natural dialect/regionalisms intact, rather than just learning standard Croatian.<br /><br />Thanks again for all your help, Daniel. You do far more than what a textbook ever could!Zecnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-53422644174765099362023-02-12T12:26:25.909+01:002023-02-12T12:26:25.909+01:00Thank you for your quick responses and all the har...Thank you for your quick responses and all the hard work you do!Zecnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-64889220304480341552023-02-12T12:12:00.966+01:002023-02-12T12:12:00.966+01:00Also note that Ikavian forms are used also in part...Also note that Ikavian forms are used also in parts of Istria and Rijeka area, e.g. the island of Krk, villages in Grobnik area etc. so you can find many examples there too.Daniel N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14585410511935134909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-24915728172868241362023-02-12T12:08:07.707+01:002023-02-12T12:08:07.707+01:00Yes, of course!
when in doubt if some forms are u...Yes, of course!<br /><br />when in doubt if some forms are used, just enter into Google:<br /><br /><b>"nedija" site:hr</b> Daniel N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14585410511935134909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-58277719491716234262023-02-12T11:26:40.776+01:002023-02-12T11:26:40.776+01:00Can Sunday also become "Nedija" in some ...Can Sunday also become "Nedija" in some regions of Dalmacija? (i.e. Both the i-shift and the loss of lj for j). Zecnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-39858355978293554692022-10-21T10:24:53.855+02:002022-10-21T10:24:53.855+02:00Actually some characteristics go to the first know...Actually some characteristics go to the first known inscriptions. For example, famous 12th century inscriptions from Povlja on the island of Brač already show "Ikavian" forms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-41497319823167914962022-10-15T22:31:25.444+02:002022-10-15T22:31:25.444+02:00Thanks for the reply. I didn't realize these ...Thanks for the reply. I didn't realize these changes went back to far. Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-52235137625371004952022-10-15T21:51:18.930+02:002022-10-15T21:51:18.930+02:00Modern Italian not for sure. Maybe Venetian, but t...Modern Italian not for sure. Maybe Venetian, but these things already happened in late Middle Ages.<br /><br />Also, Italian has both <b>l</b> and <b>lj</b> (spelled e.g. gli).Daniel N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14585410511935134909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-22437667408702852942022-10-15T20:24:37.867+02:002022-10-15T20:24:37.867+02:00Just wondering if the lj to j and ----m to -----n ...Just wondering if the lj to j and ----m to -----n changes in Dalmacija are considered to be from Italian influences? I find these changes make it a little "smoother" to speak, whereas Standard Croatia sounds more carefully pronounced. (In general, I find Italian to be "smoother-sounding" than some Slavic languages, like Russian).Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891322149855073246.post-66063450130895546402019-09-19T16:31:19.954+02:002019-09-19T16:31:19.954+02:00This chapter was moved. Here are comments from the...This chapter was moved. Here are comments from the old location.<br /><br /><b>Cez2</b> 7/9/15 20:52<br /><br />Has there ever been any discussion about elevating the ikavian pronunciation to Standard Croatian (similar to what I think Serbia does with ijekavian and ekavian)? Or has it never been a political issue?<br /><br /><b>Daniel N.</b> 28/9/15 09:36<br /><br />It was an issue in 19th century, and comes up even now once a while.<br /><br />It's interesting that even court proceedings in Ikavian areas have a lot of local words in them, to dismay of judges from other areas (who are even holding seminars on usage of Standard words in courts in order to eliminate such practice).<br /><br />The Croatian Standard is very strict and closed, it insists on words like glačalo which nobody uses.<br /><br />Some years ago there was a magazine called Vrime published in Split, but despite its name, the publisher said they are not willing to "experiment" with Ikavian.<br /><br />However, there are books published in Ikavian. For instance, Robert Pauletić wrote Himalaja u 77 priča using local speech of Split.<br /><br />It's interesting that the same guy was later very vocal against using local dialects (mostly Zagreb, but also others) in synchronization of cartoons. He said that Zagreb dialect is influencing Dalmatian kids, that kids from Split are starting to use kaj and that is unacceptable — cartoons must be synchronized into Standard. (So much about "unity of culture").<br /><br />LP Daniel<br /><br /><b>Wyrax</b> 2/8/16 21:57<br /><br />I'm ukrainian, for us ikavian dialect sounds closer because old-slavic letter "ѣ" in modern ukrainian also transformed in sound "i", this is now standart ukrainian pronunciation. But we have "ije"/"je" dialects too :)Daniel N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14585410511935134909noreply@blogger.com